Food for Thought

[Rich-League Officer]

Gentleman,
As I do some of my off season work it strikes me that we really need to take a hard look at our system.
I know long ago we voted on the cap/points ect but I could argue that each year that passes, the enthusiasm diminishes because trading has with it.
You guys are smart and clever and you know what real NFL GMs know, if the cap is causing teams to cut good players, no need to trade for them.

This creates a league where every 6 months coaches perk up perhaps and trade a little as we approach the draft but after that its quiet, too quiet.
In fact unless I am wrong we had ONE in season trade in 2036. That's crazy and not good for the league. This would be so much more interesting and fun if there were 25 trades in season.

If I were coaching, I would hate this model. It's boring to be honest. It makes me wonder if new people come in and think, ugh!
Cap, points, anti aging, unretirement rules and all the rest. I am certainly part of the problem of what is now a bloated bureaucracy.
I think we need to have a system that embraces more trading, not smothers it.

I am curious what you all think.

[James-Eagles]

Everyone knows where I stand. I wish we had the old board. Jerry and I pretty much through back and forth had a very good un-retirement and anti-aging system without points or even team management except tags allowed to extend beyond. I really think that is the way to go. I am all for realism but part of us also likes to watch our players climb up career leader boards. Build a team and try to go on a dynasty run. Most of us grew up watching the Dynasty era of Football precap and Free Agency. The current model doesn't allow for that. We currently build a team and have to start destroying that team.

That is all the part of the NFL that none of us as fans likes. I am sure Charlie isn't enjoying watching the NFL Niners pick and choose who to keep this offseason after coming so close. Justin is dreading the next few years after the Cowboys pay Dak watching key pieces leave. It is work to build these teams we should get to play with them a bit. That is part of the main reason I am for allowing loose un-retirement and anti-aging to add some fun and better career stats. I don't even care about NFL like. I just want to complete against the people in the PNFL

I am also very much in favor of doing away with points and caps all together. we know the winning and losing 99.9999....% coaching. The rest is a distraction and even as a person who enjoys the GM portion lets be honest it is time consuming work for little to no effect.I want team building but through drafts and trades. Free Agency is a complete waste of time right now anyways. There is no point in having them personally but busy work. I miss trading and wheeling and dealing. I am pretty sure there was 3-5 year window I would have won GM of the year every year.

I want to point out everything I am discussing is bad for my team. I am way under any cap with more points than I could ever spend. Just like when I voted in the current system. I knew it only gave me a 2-3 year window to shoot my shot before the cap hurt me. Heck one season I don't even think I field 53 man roster to stay under the cap.

1.Set up a system that allows longer careers and longer peeks.
2.DO away with points, salaries and contracts.
3. Stop meddling with Play, Plans and Profiles rules unless truling game breaking

Finally lets just play some Football.

[Rich-League Officer]

I agree that the cap/points has been a distraction and not enhancing the league and I bet making it tougher to join.

But we did expand the veteran life and the problem with extending it more is, it destroys the drafts.
If you can field a team of older players then there is no value in the rookie class.
I would like to see a realistic representation of ages like we see in the NFL. If that means older QBs, great.
I do not think that means 10 kickers of the 18 with 10+ years, is that the NFL?
We did expand the vets and I think its pretty good. And more of those guys could stick around if not for the cap.
But at some point they need to retire for the good of the files. Not just because he reaches 20.
There must be turnover in the files and the drafts must be meaningful.

As for the points, nobody should complain that the 3 points is killing anyone. Points are plentiful and you can trade for them now.
The cost is not causing teams to say goodbye to older players, its the cap.

I'll let Charlie deal with the plays

[Mitch-Oilers]

I have no issues with the points, salary cap rules or other "financial" aspects of the league. For me, those are not the reason I do little trading. I don't see much need for trading other than for the reason I made a trade with Steve. I got an older, maxed out player already under contract that I can use my pts on for AA. The conteact expired for the player I had on my roster at the same position. Since the player was older and not auto protected, it made sense to trade for a similar player under contract versus spending points to extend the contract plus spend money for AA.

Trading and the draft, in my opinion, do not carry as much weight for me because there isn't enough differentiation between players. I can rank the players and someone will always be ranked higher. However, the vast majority of players are all 95% of max ratings. The draft pool contains a majority of players 92% or higher of max ratings. Yes, a player might technically be ranked higher than another player. However, it's like we play in a league made of all superstar and elite players. Sure, I can trade Bird for Barkely and Bird is likely rated better. However, is it that much of a fall off?

I've developed a calculator to generate random player ratings for my solitaire league using our PNFL ratings scale. It will generate players 95% of max ratings. However, the next player it generates may only be 86% of max ratings. The next player may only be 78% of max. Suddenly, that 95% player is a commodity that I'd be willing to go after depending on my overall roster.

Those are a few of my thoughts...

[James-Eagles]

I am saying no points so everything is automated.

I disagree I think it strength the drafts because you need to balance approach or you have a huge drop off at some point.

[Rich-League Officer]

I have no issues with the points, salary cap rules or other "financial" aspects of the league. For me, those are not the reason I do little trading. I don't see much need for trading other than for the reason I made a trade with Steve. I got an older, maxed out player already under contract that I can use my pts on for AA. The conteact expired for the player I had on my roster at the same position. Since the player was older and not auto protected, it made sense to trade for a similar player under contract versus spending points to extend the contract plus spend money for AA.

Trading and the draft, in my opinion, do not carry as much weight for me because there isn't enough differentiation between players. I can rank the players and someone will always be ranked higher. However, the vast majority of players are all 95% of max ratings. The draft pool contains a majority of players 92% or higher of max ratings. Yes, a player might technically be ranked higher than another player. However, it's like we play in a league made of all superstar and elite players. Sure, I can trade Bird for Barkely and Bird is likely rated better. However, is it that much of a fall off?

I've developed a calculator to generate random player ratings for my solitaire league using our PNFL ratings scale. It will generate players 95% of max ratings. However, the next player it generates may only be 86% of max ratings. The next player may only be 78% of max. Suddenly, that 95% player is a commodity that I'd be willing to go after depending on my overall roster.

Those are a few of my thoughts...

Player attribute disparity is a huge problem for trading and keeping the vets here longer and more of them is only prolonging the issue. We need the continuation of more diverse weaker drafts (actuals) to create more diversity in the ratings as we go. Keeping maxed out players longer and longer unrealistically I might add is not helping. QBs playing longer, I'm fine with but the rest of the positions not so much. I think James/Jerry should talk about the ages they propose but having an OL all of 10+ players is not good for the league. I think the ages we came up with are pretty good.

[Rich-League Officer]

I am saying no points so everything is automated.

I disagree I think it strength the drafts because you need to balance approach or you have a huge drop off at some point.

What is automated exactly?
The age at which players retire?
I can't manipulate that all HBs must quit at a certain age.
I am curious what your ages would be at which players begin to decline though.
I think we have fairly generous ages right now.
Yes they can be all auto if there are no points but we do need some system for free agents too.

[Jerry-Redskins]

I think the ages for anti aging are better and only disagreed on a year here or there of the current rule. We could keep the points which provides what FA we would have and still function as a cap and scrap all of the other salary stuff. We just used points for a ton of years without major issues. Charlie is already changing the players slowly thru the draft. While not huge changes, there is a definite difference between players. Not a drop off, but there will be a difference between starters and bench guys down the road.

[Mitch-Oilers]

How about we keep auto AA as it is today, but discontinue non-auto AA?

[Charlie-49ers]

Gentlemen, what we have here, in the famous line from Cool Hand Luke, is a "Failure to Communicate! Like many discussions over the many years, we start with an issue, throw in a few more, and before you know it, the thread is trying to discuss a half dozen issues all at once. We run for four or five pages, go round and round and end up accomplishing very little, if any. For example, we have about six postings and comments and already raised issues regarding Trades, the Draft, Anti-aging, the Cap, Points, Unretirement, too many Superstars, and not to mention Training Camp, which has an effect on development time, which affects contracts, salary, and aging. Keep on this path and we will get nowhere.

Seriously, most of us know that if we were starting from scratch, we would do things differently. However, we have 1,000 guys playing in the League that have attributes locked in, regardless of what we do with the Draft. In an effort to keep things organized, and maybe make a decision on some things, and let others go, I am going to start a thread on each of these topics, and I would ask two things: first, let me post something on a topic to start it off. Second, if and when you respond, please keep your comments focused on the topic. Yes, you can comment how the topic at hand might affect another topic, but potential solutions should address the topic at hand. If you have multiple solutions, each should be posted in its respective thread.

BTW, it might take me a day or so to post something on everything, so just be patient.