2 DL Defenses ???
- Mitch-Dolphins
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
I agree that the biggest issue is the number of players attacking the LOS. This something I pointed out several seasons ago when we were having debates on this topic. Having 10 players in coverage was unrealistic for plays on 1st and 2nd down in my opinion. However, with atleast 3 players attacking the LOS, using LBs or Ss on the EDGE is realistic in today's NFL. It is much easier to allow more 2 DL plays than it is to change the ratings that would create "hybrid" players within the DE position.
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- Jerry-Redskins
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- Steve-Buffalo Bills
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
Perhaps our rules overthink things too much. We created a complicated mess. Maybe we need to simplify and stick to what the original VPNFL descriptions said (https://pnfl.biz/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5182) but clearly articulate how many players must defend the LOS.
Maybe for pass categories, it's not about requiring a minimum number of LOS defenders but instead limiting how many can defend the LOS. That's more important to making them a pass play.
In the original VPNFL descriptions, it said essentially this:
GLR = often gap-8 ((also sometimes called 8-2-1) or other tighter formation plays
RR = base package (4 DBs); 8 players must be run focused
RM = base package (4 DBs); 7 players must have run defense as primary duty
RL = pass focused base package (4 DBs); at least 6 defenders must be run stoppers
RRD = looser GLR plays with an extra LB, being used midfield, 3rd 0-1, or when opponent is running out the clock
GLP = very aggressive to stop the catch for a score
PS = only mentions needing an extra DB and being primarily used on 3rd down and short
PM = 3rd down defense for 6-10 yard situations with at least 5 DBs
PL = 3rd down defense for 10+ yard situations with at least 5 DBs
PRD = prevent defenses; called late in halves especially when opponent is behind late in the 4th quarter
New definition of "defending the LOS"=
any logic that initially focuses the player on defending the LOS instead of defending a receiver or any part of the field beyond 5 yards from the LOS; examples of defending the LOS include:
- any reads within 5 yards of the LOS,
- any 'move to' logic that moves the player in position to defend the zone between the LOS and 4 yards from the LOS,
- any 'move to' or zone logic that moves the player across the LOS,
- any run rush logic
- key on QB
- any M2M player defending the backfield
- blitz and pass rush (note: doesn't count on RUN CATEGORIES)
New, simple play design rules:
GLR = 8 or more players must defend the LOS; no more than two can be outside the field numbers
RR = 8 or more players must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; no more than 4 DBs allowed
RM = exactly 7 players (no more no less) must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; no more than 4 DBs allowed
RL = no more than 6 players can defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; no more than 4 DBs allowed
RRD = similar to RR plays except only 3 DBs allowed; 4 LBs required
GLP = 3 or more players must defend the LOS; no more than two LOS defenders can be outside the field numbers
PS = no more than 5 players can defend the LOS, but at least 2 must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 5 or more DBs required
PM = no more than 4 players can defend the LOS, but at least 2 must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 5 or more DBs required
PL = no more than 3 players can defend the LOS, but at least 2 must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 5 or more DBs required
PRD = exactly 2 players (no more no less) must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 6 or more DBs required; can only be called when under 5 min in a half
And we make this the new rules for this season and fix the mess next offseason.
Maybe for pass categories, it's not about requiring a minimum number of LOS defenders but instead limiting how many can defend the LOS. That's more important to making them a pass play.
In the original VPNFL descriptions, it said essentially this:
GLR = often gap-8 ((also sometimes called 8-2-1) or other tighter formation plays
RR = base package (4 DBs); 8 players must be run focused
RM = base package (4 DBs); 7 players must have run defense as primary duty
RL = pass focused base package (4 DBs); at least 6 defenders must be run stoppers
RRD = looser GLR plays with an extra LB, being used midfield, 3rd 0-1, or when opponent is running out the clock
GLP = very aggressive to stop the catch for a score
PS = only mentions needing an extra DB and being primarily used on 3rd down and short
PM = 3rd down defense for 6-10 yard situations with at least 5 DBs
PL = 3rd down defense for 10+ yard situations with at least 5 DBs
PRD = prevent defenses; called late in halves especially when opponent is behind late in the 4th quarter
New definition of "defending the LOS"=
any logic that initially focuses the player on defending the LOS instead of defending a receiver or any part of the field beyond 5 yards from the LOS; examples of defending the LOS include:
- any reads within 5 yards of the LOS,
- any 'move to' logic that moves the player in position to defend the zone between the LOS and 4 yards from the LOS,
- any 'move to' or zone logic that moves the player across the LOS,
- any run rush logic
- key on QB
- any M2M player defending the backfield
- blitz and pass rush (note: doesn't count on RUN CATEGORIES)
New, simple play design rules:
GLR = 8 or more players must defend the LOS; no more than two can be outside the field numbers
RR = 8 or more players must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; no more than 4 DBs allowed
RM = exactly 7 players (no more no less) must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; no more than 4 DBs allowed
RL = no more than 6 players can defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; no more than 4 DBs allowed
RRD = similar to RR plays except only 3 DBs allowed; 4 LBs required
GLP = 3 or more players must defend the LOS; no more than two LOS defenders can be outside the field numbers
PS = no more than 5 players can defend the LOS, but at least 2 must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 5 or more DBs required
PM = no more than 4 players can defend the LOS, but at least 2 must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 5 or more DBs required
PL = no more than 3 players can defend the LOS, but at least 2 must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 5 or more DBs required
PRD = exactly 2 players (no more no less) must defend the LOS; no restriction on placement; 6 or more DBs required; can only be called when under 5 min in a half
And we make this the new rules for this season and fix the mess next offseason.
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
I think the 4 DBs should be 5 DBs to get inline with modern game. While the 4DB rule was right in 98 that was 27 years ago base D is 5 DBs and has been for years.
- Jerry-Redskins
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
I think we just had a crazy number of play changes done a week before the season. Think I will worry about my PPP's and 2047 at this point.
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- Mitch-Dolphins
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
Jerry-Redskins wrote:I think we just had a crazy number of play changes done a week before the season. Think I will worry about my PPP's and 2047 at this point.
No kidding... The 1st few weeks will be interesting...
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- Dean-Atlanta
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
I agree on the 4 DBs to 5 DBs, but some may be still stuck in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K38xNqZvBJI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K38xNqZvBJI
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- Mitch-Dolphins
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
I'd like to see us move from 33% to 50% this season.
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- Matt-Jacksonville
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
Jerry-Redskins wrote:I think we just had a crazy number of play changes done a week before the season. Think I will worry about my PPP's and 2047 at this point.
I agree. Maybe we continue the discussion, but any more play changes are saved till next offseason. If we can reach a consensus on what we want to change by week 8, we know going into the offseason what needs to be updated and have more than two weeks to adjust.
- Matt-Jacksonville
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Re: 2 DL Defenses ???
Mitch-Dolphins wrote:I'd like to see us move from 33% to 50% this season.
If everything is fixed, I don't see a need to stop at 50% just remove the limitations entirely. If we need limitations maybe limit to 3rd and 4th down.
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