Play criteria - Open discussion

[Mitch-Oilers]

I've had some extra time to dive deeper into individual plays. I have a thought I want to run by everyone.

To create more differentiation between defenses, maybe we should adjust the requirements for CBs and LBs for different play categories.

Example:

RR - 4 DBs max
RM - 5 DBs max and 3 CBs max
RL - 6 DBs max and 4 CBs max
PS - 6 DBs max
PM - 7 DBs max
PL - 7 DBs max

I bring this up because in reviewing RM and RL plays, there are a lot of 1 LB formations and a lot of plays with 4+ DBs.

It seems like those would fit more into a PS type of category for 3rd downs, etc. I know there are additional criteria for creating plays, but the player packages stood out to me.

Just throwing it out there for thought...

[Dean-Atlanta]

This proposal would further NERF our defense and favor the offense. Passing offenses will destroy RM plays with only 3 CBs for example.

This would make worse a trend we've been on already, where we've nerfed the offense, then when plays like 2-DL MN plays are VERY effective, we nerf the defense.

As we continually nerf both the defense ansd the offense, to keep it balanced, we are nerfing, and making less robust, the simulation of the game itself, and also further discouraging play design and innovation in the play editor as well. And this trend, if it continues, lowers the quality of our game over.

I think proposal is based on good intentions, as our many of our rules and changes, but it will have unintended consequences that will be mostly negative.

I would cast a definite NO vote on this idea.

[Shawn-Giants]

Interesting concept, Nothing is stopping you from deploying your own metric for play design, we don't need anymore rules, use your play concept and create plays using that criteria, test it and submit.

I wanted to create a visual play pool that showed the formation of the play like on the play call screen. So we can better visualize the formations instead of having to select them to see in the gameplan.

Which would high light just what you saw in your deep dive. We need less rules and more play editor action. Not against what you proposed, but you should create plays using that criteria and submit them.

[Mitch-Oilers]

@Shawn - I like the thought of the visual play pool. I would find that useful.

What led me to propose my thought to the group was there seems to be little differentiation between the different play pools, especially PS, PM and RL. Since we only allow 2-DLs on PS and PM, I thought it would create a little more differentiation by limiting DB/CBs with RL and RM since in theory, they are geared toward more early down situations.

To do it, we would have to reclassify a lot of plays which I know would be a pain. However, maybe it's something we should consider for new plays we create... or not! Ha!

[Dean-Atlanta]

The rules added for this season already do some of what you are wanting, bu the OLD plays remains, such as the 30 PM plays doe instance, that need to be "32" plays now woth 2 LBs if they are submitted as new plays where PRD or PL can still be 3 DLs with 0-1 LBs in them.

[Rich-League Officer]

It's funny that someone brought this topic up because I have to confess to always being confused about the vpnfl and all this crap
When I joined, I thought the idea was that each play category would be defined by specific player personnel and then there would be profile restrictions. That made sense to me.
And from day one, there were profile restrictions and I followed the rules.
But, there has never been specific player restriction. I think in the early days there were definitions for what a Run Right would look like or what maybe a run right defense is. Yet there were no rules saying here is the specific package of players you must use to qualify for a run right or pass short.

It just became a situation where someone made a play and they labeled it whatever they wanted. A run left defense can look exactly like a pass medium. Lefts, middles and rights all can be same personnel too.
I know I questioned this early on and Isamu, maybe Charlie and the other vpnfl dudes kinda dismissed my question. Maybe they did not understand what I meant. Maybe I still don't understand it 23 years later.

And after 43 seasons, we add in rules for limiting 2 DL from certain play cats which is fine. But are there definitions for what constitutes a run left defense? or any other cat?
Is it too late? after all these seasons does it make sense to change anything?

I would love Charlies input on the origins of all this.

[Mitch-Oilers]

@Rich - we are on the same page. What I like about VPNFL is that the play categories were based on personnel and situation. From reading the VPNFL website and "read me" files, this was done on purpose because CPU teams couldn't change personnel to match the offense. That way you wouldn't have 5 WR formations on 1st down against a 4-3 defense. Since base packages at the time used 2 or 3 WRs on early downs, the RM, RL and RR plays mirrored that in defensive personnel.

That's how I understood it anyway.

[Dean-Atlanta]

How many of our teams here regularly employ only 2-3 WRs on early downs? How many NFL teams in the 2021 season did that?

My guess would be few to none on both counts.

The style of football that the VPNFL system viewed as "vaguely plausible" is now antiquated.

It survives in the PNFL because it has heavily evolved.

[Jerry-Redskins]

There are definitions in the rules for how to categorize a play. It is based on the players actions and formation and not the position.


D04: Play Category Determination Requirements

1. Play Type Rules:

 Pass Razzle Dazzle: Must have 5 or more DBs and at least 7 Players (ANY) must have a PASS FOCUSED defense.
 Pass Long: Must have 5 DBs and at least 6 Players (ANY) must have a PASS FOCUSED defense.
 Pass Medium: Must have 5 DBs and at least 5 Players (ANY) must have PASS FOCUSED defense.
 Pass Short: Must have 4 DBs and at least 5 Players (ANY) must have PASS FOCUSED defense.
 Run Left: Must have 4 DBs and no more than 6 Players (ANY) can have RUN FOCUSED defense.
 Run Middle: Must have 4 DBs and 7 Players (ANY) must have RUN FOCUSED. defense
 Run Right: Must have 4 DBs and at least 8 Players (ANY) must have RUN FOCUSED defense.
 Run Razzle Dazzle: Must have 2 DBs and at least 7 Players (ANY) must have RUN FOCUSED defense.
 Goal Line Run: No DB requirement but at least 7 Players (ANY) must have RUN FOCUSED defense.
 Goal Line Pass: No DB requirement but at least 5 Players (ANY) must have PASS FOCUSED defense.

[Mitch-Oilers]

@Dean - unless I'm way off base, I believe most teams only use 2 or 3 WRs max on early downs in the NFL. A lot of teams use double TEs, flex TE, etc along with 2WRs and a HB.

The difference I see now is the athleticism of the TE and hybrid TEs are much better than in years past.