4th down special teams

[Jerry-Redskins]

I'm beginning to think it is a waste of time. SO far I cannot force the Profile to call the Fake D plays. It also does not call the 3rd down situation. I put a couple of goal line d's in the plan with no way to be called and they are called on the 4th down attempts and even some 3rd and long.

[Mitch-Oilers]

I did some experiments as well.

I set my defensive profile as follows:

ALL 1st down scenarios - RM
ALL 2 & 10+ scenarios - PRD
ALL 2 & 0-10 scenarios - RL
ALL 3 & 10+ scenarios - PL
ALL 3 & 2-5 scenarios - PS
ALL 3 & 0-1 scenarios - RRD
ALL 4 & 0-5 scenarios - PUNT or FG as appropriate

Results:

All 4 & 0-1 audibled to RM
All 4 & 2-5 audibled to PS, PM, PL or PRD

Here's the head scratcher... these results were from my 2nd round of tests. During my 1st round of tests, I had GLP plays in my gameplan but did not have them called in my profile. However, on 4th & 2-5, GLP plays were used as audibles at a high rate. I took the GLP plays out of my gameplan for the 2nd round of testing.

Bottomline, I don't know if 4th down audibles have a set of play categories coded to be called or if it pulls from another scenario in the profile.

[Mitch-Oilers]

I left one scenario out above...

ALL 3 & 6-10 scenarios - PM

[Jerry-Redskins]

MItch. Same as my results. Almost as if the game is calling what the original coding says is the best D category. RM, GLP, GLR would be the expected categories based on original definitions. So this means no reason to touch the punt plays.

[Charlie-49ers]

I actually pursued this topic several seasons back and determined that the defense does react to 4th down plays by assigning a defensive play that is not associated with your 3rd down profile, but rather has its own logic! The following is an example of what I determined, but not necessarily exact, as I have forgotten the exact results. Anyway, I had Goal Line Run, Goal Line Pass, and Run Razzle Dazzle plays somewhere in my profile. When I Simmed a game where I was the Keyboard, I forced 4th downplays every time the situation came up to see what the computer would call on defense. The computer called the same category consistently (hypothetically, Run Razzle Dazzle). So, I removed all the Run Razzle Dazzle defensive plays from my profile to see what would happen. As a result, the computer defaulted to another category consistently (hypothetically, Goal Line Run). I then repeated the process another time and got the same results. As a result of these tests, I changed my profile so that the defensive default for 4th and go for it would be (hypothetically Goal Line Pass), which I considered the best defense at the time. Now, I have forgotten the whole thing!!!

In brief, if you follow the process I laid out above, I am pretty sure that you will get the same results. The computer has a pecking order starting with a specific category and uses it if a play from that category is in your profile. If there is no play in that category in your profile it moves on to the next category and so on. If someone has a chance to run this scenario, please post your findings.

[Mitch-Oilers]

@ Charlie - I'm following you. I think there is something to that. However, I had GLP, GLR and RRD in my original gameplan. The computer never called GLR or RRD.

[Steve-Buffalo Bills]

So you are saying 4th down situations in profiles are just as fucked up as retirements. Shocker.

[Rich-League Officer]

In any of the testing going on, IF you change your profile to a proper 4th down defense to defend a 4th down try, the computer is calling it properly?
If so, not sure what all the fuss is. If a team is routinely going for it on 4th, you as a coach need to defend it. If you keep calling punt returns and then getting a crap defense on his 4th-1, that's on you. Yeah, 4th-1 is tough to stop if your defense is a pass long.
So, change your profile! The other team is being aggressive and forcing you to abandon a punt return perhaps. But the upside for you is great field position if you stop it. This is the coaching chess match.

[Dean-Atlanta]

Are teams going for first down far more often on 4th and 1? And it seems like the conversions are very high percentage on 4th and 1, has anyone compiled any stats on this across all 18 teams?

[Jerry-Redskins]

We are saying even if you call regular plays on 4th down D, if you have a goal pass d in your plan it will get called even if it is not in your profile any where. The game can what it prioritizes on 4th and not what you have called in the profile.