Salary Cap Poll

[Dean-Atlanta]

The salary cap hasn't YET added to FA, and maybe would have to be much stricter to do that, but it has forced teams over the cap to trade higher paid (generally more value) veteran players to teams that could fit them under the cap, and in theory, needed them to upgrade their overall roster talent. On that level, the salary cap has had some effectiveness in creating parity and redistributing player talent.

Regarding what Mitch suggest, it included this:

Players 5 years or less experience - auto-protected
Players 6 to 8 years of experience - 4 max protected
Players 9 to 10 years of experience - 3 max protected
Players 11 and 12 years of experience - 2 max protected
Players over 13+ years of experience - 1 max protected

This defeinitely favors youth, for better or worse. A team built mostly with players R-5 loses very few players to free agency. Maybe Rich or someone could analyze our current rosters and show how many players would be put into free agency by a plan like this, and that will tall us whether it's worth changing to this kind of system.

[Justin-Chicago]

For those saying the salary cap has not created interesting free agency, stay tuned, it's going to get better and better. I don't believe we have even had a rookie class of players play their career under the cap to the point of aging yet. Have some patience. The cap system was made to go hand in hand with the draft pools. It's doing the job.

Also keep in mind, the league was generous to raise the cap out of its' initial range the 2038/2039 seasons, as many owners (myself included) groused about the challenges of keeping our team together. Some of those contract extensions pre-dated the cap, now they're increasingly off the books. Perhaps it's simply time for the league office to tighten the reins...

[Matt-Jacksonville]

I agree with James.
No cap and No points.
The system needs to be easier for all of us and especially new potential coaches.

We created the NFL style and it failed.
Free agency is weak, 95% of the players sign for 1 point and there are never studs there.
Trading is essentially dead in season.

The cap & points system has worked, we now all have the same teams.
We are all capped out. It's boring.

We need a system that promotes trading which also creates more dialogue between coaches all season long.
There was a time this league was heavy trading and terrible free agency. People complained and we changed it.
Now we have very low trading and terrible free agency.

I believe we should blow up the entire system!

But, will this have the desired effect? I think Charlie's expansion of the ratings in the draft pool could potentially be the solution and would like to go another season or two with the current system before we scrap it. Now if someone has some data and can PROVE removing both would make things better then I'd be ok with it. Right now as Thomas mentions above, we have cookie cutter teams. If we remove the cap and point systems a few things we would have to work out:
1) How do we do FA?
2) How do we do AA?
3) How do we handle Retirements?

I guess it boils down to what everyone wants the league to look like. Do we want cookie cutter teams and let the focus be on play design or do we want something where the GM side has an impact as well. Either way, I think we need more data from the ratings changes before we can make a solid decision either way.

[Steve-LA Chargers]

Keep it to see if it gets better or switch back to the points only system.

I prefer FA bidding over a FA draft. Don’t like the protection thing from the Fed leagues - prefer my brutal way better of only being allowed to cut 6 year players and up to get to 53. Smart teams won’t keep so many young players on PS.

Ultimately the real problem is we have a few dynasties and a bunch of “always also rans” including me. Don’t want to take away anything from the season success of the new champs and runner up, but should we be concerned that no one can really beat them? Some of us come close, but the end result is the same for many seasons now. Is it because their rosters are still stacked? That the salary cap hasn’t done its damage to them yet. This is why I kind of want to keep the cap.

[Dean-Atlanta]

We may say our teams are closer to being "cookie cutter" teams than we want, but the evolution in player ratings may be starting to move us away from that a bit. Look at my WRs and look at Jerry's WRs on Washington. I think the kinds of ratings my WRs have is more effective but Jerry went 13-3 to my 10-6 this season, and his offense scored 412 points to my 361. Jerry runs a very effective offense with the WRs he has, many of which have 82-83 speed, and many of us think we need to have 5-7 WRs with 84 speed.

The current draft pool has fewer 84 speed WRs in it, this is making 84 speed WRs more rate and our teams are gradually becoming less "cookie cutter" in nature.

[tmurph-Jets]

I think everyone is thinking the cap is going to magically kick in and dispense justice on the Jets, Cardinals, Redskins and Raiders and this talent will filter to the teams at the bottom. It's not going to happen.
The Chargers have as much talent as the Jets. The entire league has talent and overall roster strength is close.
And by my rankings, 5 of the top 6 QBs in the league did not make the playoffs. So the disparity is not with rosters but coaching. That could mean real life time constraints or a number of factors.

The system as it exists has created a false narrative that we have an NFL system and free agency will turn you around. And this happens one time every 6 months. Very hard to turn around a team in season with these rules. Very hard for a new coach to feel excited and wait 6 months for something that is not going to happen. But given the rules we play under, all teams have talent because there is an over supply of talent. Most teams were very close to the cap including many non playoff teams. How are those "bad" teams going to reload with all the great players that the top 4 have to lose?
Those great players are older so teams often cut them loose right before they age or they adjust their depth slots and make them retire. So how does the "bad" team acquire them? They need to be pro-active and trade for them now. But many teams are reluctant because of the players age, costs involved and inevitable cap hit.

So in reality, the Jets will lose players but so will all teams. And it's highly doubtful my great players will be on your team. They will be allowed to age rendering them useless or they will retire. You will do the same thing. Unless someone trades for them now which we all know is difficult. For example, I am shopping a great CB but his salary is high and all teams are thinking, I'd love to have him next year but my cap is hell too!
Is this system really working? Could that same player be acquired if there was no cap system in place?

The best system is what this league had years ago, open wild west trading. No cap of any kind. You trade your way to a great roster, either accumulating draft picks or trading for stars. No worries about him fitting under the cap. League activity stays reasonably high all the time because no time is a bad time to trade. You can turn over a team any time you want. And as we all know, free agency is not the boon we all pretend it is. Maybe there is a player or two teams get excited about but it changes nothing. 90% of free agents sign for 1 point because they are the fillers of the league. Teams strategically let this player go to Jacksonville and sign the next man up at the same position. It's a game we all play.

Last year free agency, start to finish for the 2039 season.
81 players signed (roughly 8% of the players in the league)
15 signed for 0 points
60 signed for 1 point
2 signed for 1.5 points
2 signed for 3 points
1 signed for 4.5 points
1 signed for 21 points

So 75/81 signed for 0 & 1 point which is 92.5%

This is what coaches are waiting 6 months for?
If you joined this league today and this is how our free agency looked, and then saw how hard trading is, you would quit.

[James-Eagles]

We may say our teams are closer to being "cookie cutter" teams than we want, but the evolution in player ratings may be starting to move us away from that a bit. Look at my WRs and look at Jerry's WRs on Washington. I think the kinds of ratings my WRs have is more effective but Jerry went 13-3 to my 10-6 this season, and his offense scored 412 points to my 361. Jerry runs a very effective offense with the WRs he has, many of which have 82-83 speed, and many of us think we need to have 5-7 WRs with 84 speed.

The current draft pool has fewer 84 speed WRs in it, this is making 84 speed WRs more rate and our teams are gradually becoming less "cookie cutter" in nature.

The points you are making is exactly why you the cap doesn't work. It is about coaching not about the players. Even after new draft classes are the only thing left the cap still won't matter. It only hurts new coaches by adding meaningless complications. I would say the cap has caused less player movement not more.

Even if players matter the cap and current point system only hurt new coaches or people who struggle management. If anything it only creates a bigger gap better good GM and ok GMs. Think of it as if you are a new coach. You have to figure out this complicated point and cap system while trying to build an effective game plan. You are most likely going to lose hope. Heck even if all the have to do is build PPP can be enough to burn you out without the other stuff.

Oh and Dean Looking at the WR personally I like almost all over Jerry's WR over any of yours. I would probably have SP my be 4th or 5th attribute when I look at WRs

[James-Eagles]

But, will this have the desired effect? I think Charlie's expansion of the ratings in the draft pool could potentially be the solution and would like to go another season or two with the current system before we scrap it. Now if someone has some data and can PROVE removing both would make things better then I'd be ok with it. Right now as Thomas mentions above, we have cookie cutter teams. If we remove the cap and point systems a few things we would have to work out:
1) How do we do FA?
2) How do we do AA?
3) How do we handle Retirements?

I guess it boils down to what everyone wants the league to look like. Do we want cookie cutter teams and let the focus be on play design or do we want something where the GM side has an impact as well. Either way, I think we need more data from the ratings changes before we can make a solid decision either way.

1) As I said waver wire like fantasy football league. Team submits a claim if not one with a worst record(draft order) claims you get him. Teams who have claimed fewer players that day get priority.

2. Either have a more liberal AA system or lower points received and keep it there for that.

3 Retirement would be the same as now point or cap have no baring on this.


Charlie's ratings might make a different but that different will most likely be the same with or without the cap.

[Steve-LA Chargers]

The points system by itself worked fine, but the salary cap wasn't purely about player movement. We mainly added salary cap for realism - one of the core principles of the league is to strive for realism.

If we revert to points only, I'd be okay with that, but I don't see it happening until another season as we have already started down the offseason path.

And Thomas is correct. If your play selection sucks, you will lose regardless of roster talent. The Chargers purposely used vanilla plays after week 4 and lost 15 in a row - that should be a warning to everyone that your play selection matters a lot. I used profiles that won me a lot of games over the past few seasons and the Chargers still got blown out. It's the plays, not the profiles nor the roster.

[tmurph-Jets]

Steve just said something very revealing, it's not the profiles or the players but it's the plays we call.
If that is true, why bother with the complication of points & cap?

Steve is also right, we try for NFL realism and that has been the hook for decades. I struggle with that part.
Because if we do not simplify, will this league survive?
I ask this because I only count 10 coaches who responded to Mitch's post about 2040.
I don't see Green Bay, Minnesota, New York G, Seattle and it appears Detroit wants to leave now.

My question is, why does James want to quit and why do new coaches feel overwhelmed and how do we fix that?
Maybe James could tell us because his answer might be exactly why new coaches don't join or don't stay.

A great first step toward simplicity is getting rid of the cap and then maybe a season after that eliminating points.
If players are only a small portion of this puzzle then why are we putting so much emphasis on them.
Can you imagine a league where someone joins and all they need to worry about is the plan and profile?
They have their team, they can grab a FA if needed, draft rookies because we all love that. Simple.
Why not use a waiver like system for free agents. You want a free agent? you post on the forum for him.
Like in baseball, only teams below you in the standings can make a claim. This way bad teams always get first crack.
Simple and easy, no points no cap involved.