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designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:03 am
by Justin-Chicago
I enjoyed hearing some discussion on the most recent "This Week in the PNFL" around the idea of enabling a limited use of non-starter QB plays in select situations.
It got me thinking about what this might look like, here is my initial idea:
-only plays in categories GLP, GLR, RL, and PRD could feature a non-starter QB
-all play names for these plays could end in "Q2" or another symbolic suffix
-game plan use limited to two per category within the categories of GLP, GLR, RL, and PRD
I believe this would allow for limited use of such plays, and closely replicate how these plays are utilized in the NFL.
Looking forward to some further discussion...
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:19 pm
by Jerry-Redskins
Debatable if it should be done, but the play number would need to be higher in my opinion to even consider it. We already have teams using play categories more with lower minimums as it is easier to find effective plays. Nothing should be below 4 in my opinion. This would make 50% of the different personnel package, but I see it as not being used as a better thing, but as a way to only save the EN of the starter by using plays where the QB attributes matter the least, which is a reason to not consider iti Move all mins to a least 4 and allow 25%, that makes it a rare play call as it is very rarely done in the NFL.
Also would need more unique naming conventions to be able to enforce it. This makes the rules more complicated and just not sure there is enough value to do it. What do we game in actual game play?
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 4:12 pm
by Justin-Chicago
Taysom Hill (example from the show) has 140 attempts combined rush and pass in this role over the past 22 games...6.4 per game. High utilization (outlier game) was 16 attempts 2022 vs Philly.
Limiting the playcalls to these situational categories and two per category likely caps the realistic probability at 6-10 plays per game for a team that's all in trying to maximize. If it were more (outlier game), it would likely come from RL or GLR calls in the last 5 minutes with a team up big, which is realistic utilization of QB2 anyways.
To Jerry's point (I think) of what do we gain?
We gain realism. Backup backs and receivers have been allowed for many seasons, the QB has been the only notable exclusion. This doesn't fully approximate the NFL. The direction our league is headed, with live broadcasts, in game commentary, etc., if there's a realistic way to add a new wrinkle and duplicate the NFL, why wouldn't we?
We're not talking about platooning QBs on a full time basis, it's very specific. No new play categories, no new rules, just new plays and allowing their limited use in game plans. Simple and straightforward.
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:25 pm
by Jerry-Redskins
Taysom Hill is a QB in a TE body and not really a decent NFL QB. NO drafted him not to be a real QB. Not a good example. I just believe the proposal is not creating unique things like QB Hill usage and really owning accomplishing platooning. The current PNFL QB EN and sub % was done after a lot of testing by Charlie to get QB INT's and stuff closer to the NFL. Anything that changes that dynamic has to be thought out as it an have other inplications on the game.
Why I do not like it, it has to be even more restricted if it comes into use. 50% in low minimum categories makes it more of a platooning option for sure. In my opinion, everyone (100%) in the league would use the max amount to sub QB2 as much as possible in the categories suggested like RL and GLR as QB2 would make little difference in the play success. That's not being creative. Its platooning. Hiking to a non-QB in RL or GLR to simulate wildcat plays would be more creative and realistic. Still need to be more 25% than 50%
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:41 pm
by Steve-LA Chargers
This is what Chat GPT said about wildcats formations:
Code: Select all
The Wildcat formation is a unique offensive formation in the NFL that typically involves a direct snap to a running back or a non-traditional quarterback, often a backup quarterback, to create deception and gain an advantage in the running game. This formation was popularized in the late 2000s by the Miami Dolphins with Ronnie Brown and the Arkansas Razorbacks with Darren McFadden, but it has since been used sporadically by various NFL teams.
The usage of the Wildcat formation can vary from team to team, and its application is not strictly tied to a particular game situation, down, score, or field location. It is often employed as a surprise tactic to catch the defense off guard, and teams may use it in a variety of situations, including:
1. Short Yardage Situations: Teams may use the Wildcat in short-yardage situations, such as 3rd-and-1 or 4th-and-1, to gain the necessary yardage for a first down or a touchdown.
2. Red Zone (Inside the 20-yard line): The Wildcat can be used in the red zone, where the field is compressed, to take advantage of the running threat and create scoring opportunities.
3. Change of Pace: Coaches might use the Wildcat as a change of pace within a drive, regardless of field location or down, to keep the defense guessing.
4. Trick Plays: Sometimes, teams use the Wildcat as part of a trick play or gadget play, such as a reverse or a pass attempt by the running back, to confuse the defense and potentially gain a big play.
5. Big Play Situation: In crucial game situations where a big play is needed, teams might turn to the Wildcat as a way to spark their offense.
It's important to note that the Wildcat formation is not used as frequently as traditional offensive formations, and its success depends on the execution and the element of surprise. Over the years, NFL teams have become more familiar with defending against the Wildcat, making it less effective than when it was first introduced.
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:47 pm
by Steve-LA Chargers
This is what chat GPT says about backup QBs:
Code: Select all
NFL teams typically insert their backup quarterback into a game in the following situations, aside from when the starting quarterback is injured:
1. Blowout Games: When a game is lopsided and either the team is winning by a significant margin or losing badly, coaches may decide to give the backup quarterback playing time to gain experience, rest the starter, or protect the starter from potential injury in a game that is already decided.
2. Resting the Starter: In games where a team has already secured a playoff spot or a high seed, coaches may choose to rest the starting quarterback and other key players to avoid unnecessary injury and give the backup playing time.
3. Performance Concerns: If the starting quarterback is underperforming or struggling in a game, the coaching staff may make a change to the backup quarterback to try to spark the offense or provide a different look to the defense.
4. Late in a Lost Cause: In games where the team is losing by a significant margin and there is little chance of a comeback, coaches may insert the backup quarterback to finish the game and get some reps.
5. Planned Rotations: Some teams use a planned quarterback rotation, particularly in preseason games or when experimenting with different offensive strategies. This can involve switching between the starter and backup at specific intervals or situations.
6. Wildcat or Trick Plays: While not a traditional backup quarterback substitution, teams might occasionally insert a backup quarterback in certain trick plays, gadget plays, or formations that require a quarterback's unique skill set.
7. Injury Precaution: Even when the starting quarterback is not injured, coaches may insert the backup for a series or two to give the starter a brief break and reduce the risk of injury.
It's worth noting that the specific situations for inserting a backup quarterback can vary from team to team and depend on the coaching staff's strategy, the backup quarterback's skill set, and the context of the game. Backup quarterbacks often have limited playing time, and their role can change from game to game based on the team's needs and objectives.
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:51 pm
by Steve-LA Chargers
Based on this, I would potentially be in favor of creating QB2 plays as PLM (runs) and PLL (passes) and restricting their use to <5 min in each half if behind or ahead by 8+.
This is realism in both college and pro.
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:54 pm
by Justin-Chicago
Steve, with the minimums we have there is not room in the plans for additional categories unless one of the current categories is omitted.
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:25 pm
by Steve-LA Chargers
Justin-Chicago wrote:Steve, with the minimums we have there is not room in the plans for additional categories unless one of the current categories is omitted.
Just means people would need to decide which optional categories to use in their plans.
Re: designed plays for QB2
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:43 pm
by Jerry-Redskins
While I'm not in favor of it and anything like it needs to be very very limited if done, Justin's idea is at least similar in scope and incremental to where we are at. James has been right on this part. The league is going great. Lets have fun with what we have going.
Plus the AI thing actually explains it's not done hardly at all in the pace of normal play. It talks preseason, game loss, and resting the last game of the season. The NFL probably averages less than 1 call a game. Looked for stats, but I've seen only one call this season in the games I've watched so far and it was the RB taking the direct snap and no QB2 running any unique plays outside New Orleans. QB Hill did do about 3 or 4 runs a game based on stats.