Those hours invested in creating news plays...

[Neil-Raiders]

I would be satisfied with Mitch's proposed solution. Compromise=good.

[Rich-League Officer]

I think the playmakers are a little sensitive today
Perhaps feeling a little underappreciated?
My comments are not to discourage you from trying to create.
I wish more coaches would try. So the newer coaches in the editor is great because I hope it produces something new.

I should be more targeted in my comments;
For Dean, who has created hundreds and hundreds of plays on offense and defense, you have enough!
Just edit and fix what you have, new plays are not needed. Instead of 50 of 500 being used, edit the 450 and try and make them useful for yourself and other coaches. Why is that concept so distasteful?

For newer coaches who have very little submissions to date, of course you can create. But if Charlie feels this is just another clone of an existing play with a meaningless edit, then it should be rejected. And if you have submitted 25 plays, do you use them? are they good? do other coaches use them? If not, why the resistance to go back and edit it?

I am the perfect person to say what is needed because I know these plays better than anyone. Not in the creation of them but in the implementation of them. I have simmed millions and millions of games, I would bet I have simmed more games and tested more plays than every coach who ever passed through this league combined. I used to test every play, every week for probably 25 seasons. I still sim games, probably more than 15 coaches today and have no reason to do so. I know what works, I know what sucks.
Would it shock you to know that I sometimes throw up some of your games and sim 300 games?
Or test the entire play pool to see what's working and what is not working?

Bottomline...
Charlie is asking for custom plays to be creative, unique and on time and since he spends a lot of time doing this, I don't think its asking too much.
And you gentleman submitting plays do spend a lot of time in the editor and I ask this sincerely, why would you want to spend hours and hours creating plays that in the end get deleted because you don't use them and no other coach uses because they are ineffective? I would think you feel a sense of ownership and pride to keep them updated for your own game plans. As someone said, quality over quantity.
Anyway, all of this is up to Charlie. He is the final word and he will do what he wants because it's his time in reviewing all of these plays.

[Matt-Jacksonville]

New Draconian Custom Play Rules effective Week #7:

1) Plays must be submitted by Wednesday midnight (east coast). No exceptions!
2) I you submit and have plays approved for a week, those plays must be in your game plans.
3) Appropriate penalties will apply if you violate Rule #2.
4) If someone thinks of something else necessary for Custom Rules, let me know.

Discussion of play development:

As I understand it, we should pack the play pool with any play that is different than any other play! For example, SF3Xqout is a good play. So now I should allow SF3Yqout; SF3Uqout; SF3Vqout; SF3Zqout; SF3Aqout; SF3Bqout; SF3Cqout; SF3Dqout; SF3Eqout; SF3Hqout; SF3Iqout; and SF3Jqout without changing anything except the intended receiver? Let's assume that there is a designated secondary receiver, say SF3XoutZ. Now I can leave the play as is and change either the primary or secondary or both, which makes for probably fifty or more clones of the play with different combinations of receivers. Now, let's pack the game plan with the required five plays for Pass Short Right. Wow, five plays, all different, but the same!

Does anyone see what I am trying to avoid?

I see what you are trying to avoid, but in some ways we may want this to allow teams to spread the ball around more. I don't think we need a rule against someone using the same play 5 times in a particular category as long as there is a defense that CAN counter that. If you run a 22 trap every play in real life a defensive coordinator will stop it. If that is the only play you have in your game plan when they stop it, you are not getting very far.

[Matt-Jacksonville]

Just want to say thank you to those that DO create plays. You are appreciated. I have a ton of plays that I would try to tweak and make sure they are PNFL legal, but just haven't had the time to do so and it's a bit of a burden trying to get the camera to work in order to see different angles to analyze a play due to modern PCs making the camera move so fast you can't adjust it.

With that said, I do like the idea of allowing clone plays in a category but, having a limit similar to timing passes.

[Matt-Jacksonville]

Oh and Rich, I may need to hire your services as a "special consultant" to fix my defense. it's atrocious.

[Dean-Atlanta]

I see what you are trying to avoid, but in some ways we may want this to allow teams to spread the ball around more. I don't think we need a rule against someone using the same play 5 times in a particular category as long as there is a defense that CAN counter that. If you run a 22 trap every play in real life a defensive coordinator will stop it. If that is the only play you have in your game plan when they stop it, you are not getting very far.

That is exactly why we would not want to do that even if it is allowed. If you use 5 clones of the KC crs play as your PSL and I sciout that, I use the best defenses to stop that and shut down your PSLplaysa because they are unbalanced.

[Charlie-49ers]

Wow, where to start?

1. What people forget is that a designed play with your fastest WR works well in the Play Editor, but the game is a different story! Once the EN takes effect in the game any number of receivers can replace that receiver or running back. So, your 84 SP receiver in the Editor might actually be your 83, 82 or 81 receiver when the ball is snapped and there goes your 65% completion play down to 48%. So, all the clones are most likely going to end up with different receivers in the game anyway.

2. We designed the game for variety, which is why we have minimum requirements in each play category. We want to watch the game and see different plays on the field. Otherwise, let’s just require one play in each category. How boring would the game be with every first down being a lag pass and every second down being a slot play? Similarly, do you just want one defense for every medium pass and one for every long or razzle-dazzle pass?

3. The game does have limitations. At some point, each folder has a max capacity where new plays, although added to the folder, do not show up in the game for selection. We have had this happen several times over the past twenty+ years. It is not fun to unwind in that mess!

4. Last, the execution of a certain play against another certain play will always change. Stated another way, things will always be different each time since there are multiple factors in the game that change the execution of a play every time. Run a certain offensive play against a certain defensive play twenty-five times and see how many times the results are identical.

I understand that a Pixel or two can make a difference in the execution of a play in the Editor, but the game will find a way to screw with that eventually. I submitted two unique plays this past week that were 80% and 75% respectively in my Sims, not just the Editor. Damn, I’m good. However, they went 0-3 in the game, with a couple in critical situations! Now, how good was I after spending hours of testing? What I am saying here is that whatever you think you have developed has less chance in the game itself.

Anyway, not to ramble, tweaking your own plays is the best solution unless the play is truly unique. I do not like the idea of tweaking other acronyms since some other team might be using that play expecting one result and you have messed with it, which can happen by tweaking your own plays.

[Dean-Atlanta]

Straw man argument again. NO ONE who spends time designing plays trusts what they see in the play editor. You know that. Everyone who creates plays knows that. Really weak and lame argument.

If I create a new play and it gets 65 percent completions, that is NOT the play editor, that is in real simmed games vs real teams and real PPPs where the effects of fatigue and substitution are baked into those numbers. I have seen many instances where a play that get 80 percent coimplations in the play editors get35 percent in real games and fails.

ANYONE who spends any time creating new plays knows this. Bogus arguments like that serve no purpose in advancing understanding of these issues.

[Neil-Raiders]

I told myself I would post once and be done (although I did post a second time to concur with Mitch’s proposal), but I’m going to allow myself to indulge once more since I think I’m going to raise questions or offer suggestions that might not happen otherwise.

From Charlie:
“1. What people forget is that a designed play with your fastest WR works well in the Play Editor, but the game is a different story! Once the EN takes effect in the game any number of receivers can replace that receiver or running back. So, your 84 SP receiver in the Editor might actually be your 83, 82 or 81 receiver when the ball is snapped and there goes your 65% completion play down to 48%. So, all the clones are most likely going to end up with different receivers in the game anyway.”

At the risk of giving away all of my offensive secrets (from the worst offense in the league), my problem with your view is that you are only looking at a play in isolation. When I clone an offensive pass play (or semi-clone, I don’t know which verbiage is correct) I don’t just change the intended receiver, but I typically change the blocking back(s) and often the non-targeted receivers. In other words, I don’t have HB1 blocking on every play and I switch up the receiving decoys so that in aggregate (the combination of all of the plays in my offensive gameplan) the actual on field playing time is spread amongst the skill players so that my 84 receiver (and I only have one) is more likely to be on the field when his number is called. Next year I’ll have three 84 receivers (woo-hoo!) so I’ll have better substitution depth, but I’m always going to try and ration playing time and I can only do that with plays that are specifically designed to achieve that. Most of the plays in the play pool don’t take into consideration that using play after play that has HB1 blocking reduces his effectiveness as a runner and a receiver, but my ‘clones’ do, so taking away the ability to create those additional plays puts me at a tactical disadvantage.

From Rich:
I am the perfect person to say what is needed because I know these plays better than anyone. Not in the creation of them but in the implementation of them. I have simmed millions and millions of games, I would bet I have simmed more games and tested more plays than every coach who ever passed through this league combined. I used to test every play, every week for probably 25 seasons. I still sim games, probably more than 15 coaches today and have no reason to do so. I know what works, I know what sucks. Would it shock you to know that I sometimes throw up some of your games and sim 300 games? Or test the entire play pool to see what's working and what is not working?

Yes, you are the perfect person to address this from an implementation perspective (more on that in a moment), but far from perfect from the creation perspective if you don’t actually create plays. We all enjoy different aspects of the game to different degrees. My absolute favorite part of the game is the GM role. I could happily play in a league where we GM, sim the season, and then GM again, rinse and repeat, but I’m sure that nobody else if going to sign up for that league! My second favorite part of the game is play design. I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me it’s a chance to be creative while (hopefully) solving problems. I have no issue with rules and regulations surrounding play design, but I do have an issue when the rules/regulations are changed mid-stream with no warning. My issue is magnified if people who don’t contribute to the play pool criticize those of us who get enjoyment from doing so.

So how about this, and I am not being flippant or sarcastic, since Rich has so much insight into the best plays, why doesn’t he purge everything except the best 200 plays at the end of every season? By and large it’s the same 200 plays (give or take) that get used over and over anyway, so why bother keeping the plays that ‘need to be fixed’ in the play pool? Any new coaches that come into the league won't be at a significant disadvantage because they won't have to hunt for and research the best plays. Those that don’t want to create new plays won’t lose anything because they will still have access to the top plays, while those that want to create new plays are free to do so (under established guidelines) so it won't matter how many clones of a play are created since all the extras will be flushed at the end of the season anyway?

And finally, I don’t doubt that Rich has simmed millions of games, and that simming is a big part of the routine of many of the successful coaches, but how does that reflect the NFL? My understanding is that the PNFL is supposed to simulate the NFL as closely as possible (within the confines of the game and real world limitations), but I don’t understand how simming helps to achieve that. I don’t sim at all (last season I simmed a total of 50 games, none this season) primarily because I haven’t gotten a virtual machine to work properly, but also because I don’t see how it reflects ‘football actions’ as there is nothing comparable in the NFL that I’m aware of. From my perspective, Logger and wlogstats match up with football analytics, watching taped and exhibition games equates to watching film and live scouting, and spending time in the play editor is akin to being on the practice field, but what is simming thousands of games equivalent to? At this point the genie is obviously out of the bottle, and perhaps I’m just coming to the realization that I’m a dinosaur and the game has passed me by, but how much is success in the PNFL based on coaching, players, and PPP's vs. harnessing pure computing power?

[Mitch-Oilers]

@Neil - Rich recently did a purge of plays not called in a game over the previous 5 seasons. I believe it was the off-season before you joined the league.

People had a stroke then too....